Any more example just as good? I'm sure many of you know some other accomplished musicians still in their teens from Ireland, Britain, and U.S. (Please, don't refer to yourself.)
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Have to agree with StephenR - I remember when certain "trad experts" were saying that Planxty and the Bothy Band were destroying the music! It's quite the opposite now in that the youngsters are reaching great heights with their music and anyone here in Tullamore for the last few days would only be too aware of this. For people who can't make it to the Fleadh there are many examples of young people playing on Comhaltaslive. Rather than picking an example of a young virtuouso (and there are many) I'll point you to a Clare under-18 Céilí Band at http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_256_5_tigh_na_coille_ceili_band_reels/. I think this puts in a better perspective as you have 10 young musicians playing good music and when you consider that in this competition alone there were another 14 other bands with the same number of musicians so it gives an idea of the scale of things. My contention is that there's never been more young people playing traditional music and also to a very high standard.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
For as long as our spieces has been around the previous generation has thought that the next generatin were a bunch of feckless talentless ouanquers* who were putting art, morals, knowledge everything and anything into terminal quality decline.
* I assume this special spelling will pass the Jeremy feck filter!
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
well i wouldn't go as far to say the BEST example to prove it wrong. good enough, but the last does not make me want to go back!lol.
there are lots of better examples on comhaltas live, as much as i may dislike comhaltas but however, but really the next generation is in its twenties now: sean mckeon, conor mcevoy, ronan oflaherty, enda scahill, liam o'connor,etc.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Dickens, I just clocked that video at 109. There's no need to guess. Just time 32 bars on a stopwatch, starting and stopping on the same beat (eg. the first beat of the B part the 1st and 2nd time through the tune, to give them a chance to settle into their tempo), and divide the duration into 60*64=3840.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
And, Patkiwi, this was the piece they performed for a "re-call" so it wouldn't have been as practiced as their initial tunes played earlier in the competition. Tradmoosic, I didn't intend to suggest that this is the "best" band although personally having seen their later performance at the 2007 All-Ireland in Tullamore, where they won the competition, I wouldn't have disagreed with the judges! In any case this is a bit of a digression as what we're discussing is whether or not "the younger generation can play this music right" and I think we're all in agreement on this.
I don't think that good or bad ethnic/folk/trad music exists, it's all relevant. What does exist are players who are more popular than others and I don't see why popularity should interest us.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
"it's all relevant."
I know it's not really what we're discussing here, but what *is* the relevance of the last track on the album that Slainte linked to? I'm not making any absolute judgment on it, but what's it doing tagged onto the end of a CD of traditional music? If they were seriously aiming at the 'dance music' market, surely they would have released it separately. Were they just 'avin' a laff?
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
i think something was lost in translation bannerman, i was referring to the first link that slainte put up not the ceili band which i think are great.lol. sorry i shud have made that a bit clearer.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
No worries tradmoosic - it's one of the pitfalls with communicating in Cyberspace which I've often fallen into, and the fact we're talking about two totally different recordings doesn't help. Also Martin T, what we're discussing here shouldn't need rule books - I'm not sure who said it (it might have been Breandan Breathnach) but his theory was "you know it when you hear it". Please ignore this comment if we're at cross purposes here and you're referring to something else!
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Listen to this at http://www.myspace.com/fullsetmusic
They are really very good, indeed. Michael Harrison is superb - when he's in a position to ask the question in this thread he'll be the tradition.
Steve
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Thanks, Jusa Nutter Eejit. That's exactly what I mean.
There's one thing I want to clarify. The Hernon brothers keep the aural tradition alive as did their grandparents. They learnt this music from their musical parents and grandparents. They aren't just talented kids picking up ear-catching tunes from the recent recordings of Lunasa and Dervish.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
"I think this ties in with the thread on the middle class thing?"
Yes, I read through the thread before posting this one, and thought we should look into individual cases. In the case of the Hernon brothers, they have played in competitions, sell their music, and listen to (and play?) other types of music. But do all these things really matter? Isn't it most important to learn and play this music in the old-fashioned styles through the years of listening?
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
But I guess some people arent lucky enough to learn that way - so Dervish etc serves their purpose for all those people not brought up and exposed to tunes around the world...
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Obviously, my family don't play this music, and I am now far away from the places where this music is often played and heard. But I personally prefer learning tunes from actual people to picking up obscure settings of tunes from the commercial recordings. Playing in a recording studio or on the stage before a large audience is usually very different from playing with friends in a pub or kitchen, you know. But it's true that some recordings of famous bands, including the first few albums of Dervish, have relaxed session-like feel, and there's something we can learn from them.
bb, I know you are much luckier than me. All the good music friends of mine in Japan live far from where I live. I don't have a chance to have "trouble in the kitchen."
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
I heard the fiddling daughter of Mary McNamara playing 'Jennie's
Welcome to Charlie' on Clare FM a few weeks ago. She has that
sparse, relaxed E Clare swinging style but maybe later on she'll
play like Smythe or O'Dowd?
Michael Coleman changed trad forever in the 1920s when people
started using recorded media to learn from his playing.
You could choose to play like Coleman in New York instead of the
lady down the street.
The Coleman of our age is the Internet I suppose, but going in the
opposite direction. For example you can watch
videos of "FIDDLE4" playing tunes in Belfast, seeing how he bows.
You can even write to him online and ask him about it.
You can take lessons with James Kelly through video
conferencing (so I've heard). It's bringing that village thing back a little bit.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
That's a lovely clip of the Hurleys. And it's interesting - for people who think that being in Ireland is an advantage - that their Dad and Uncle, Michael and Des, were born and bred in Leeds, England. I spent a lot of formative years playing with them.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
sure no-one realy thinks its an advantage anymore to be living in ireland and playing irish music. sure there are a whole rake of fantastic musicians that grew up in england,:ie. john carty, john blake, kevin crawford, catherine mcevoy, angelina carberry,etc. thats just a handful, and doesnt include musicians from other countries also.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Absolutley its an advantage growing up in Ireland or England. Believe me - if you want to be good a trad you wouldnt consider it an advantage growing up in Australia....maybe one day - but not now. My friends and I all started in our teens and early 20s - you can never expect to be as good as someone whos been playing since they were 5. The scene is so small here, you wouldnt even believe it...the music scenes in Ireland and England & America are massive compared so yes - I think its an advantage to grow up in a place with a big scene......
Slainte - I agree - learning from people is great...however, if we were to do that here, we'd be playing the same 40 tunes forever.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Yes, I can agree that living in Australia is a disadvantage. But all the good players from Oz I've met (some you knw bb) have all done somthing about it.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
And I'm certain that starting late is no insurmountable hurdle. Absolutely you can be as good or better than those who started as kids. That kind of negative capping of your expectations is really annoying
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
tradmoosic .. Enda Scahill is now well above his twenties and mid thirties. I was one time a fan of his.
I think we should remember that anyone we think thats great nowadays that is not considered to be of young generation was once "a younger generation musician" which means they were probably great back then but if some one was giving out about there music it may have been that it was not of their taste.
Personally I absolutely love to hear any young musician playing even if its not of top standard. Everybody has something we can learn from them no matter how good or bad!
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Okay IIig - what I meant was that you have a much better *chance* at being good if you start young, Think about it...no job, no rent to pay, no food to buy, no family to look after. Thats just what I mean...But youre right - I guess it is possible.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Living in a town with a big scene doesn't always mean you have access to the hotshot players. Some just don't have the patience to play with beginners. I was just thinking that I might be as good now as some of those really good players were when they were about 14. So in 4 years, if I'm as good as they were when they were 18, that's pretty dang good.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Ok, but if youre in a town with lots of player - the you get exposed to the music. I am not kidding when I say that 99% of Australian's think that Irish music is the Corrs. Even just hearing the music from a young age and being exposed is surely a good thing? I was so I count myself lucky.
Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Probably the best example to prove it wrong: http://www.cic.ie/product.asp?idproduct=1220
Any more example just as good? I'm sure many of you know some other accomplished musicians still in their teens from Ireland, Britain, and U.S. (Please, don't refer to yourself.)
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by slainte
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Blimey, on reading the title of the thread I was about to wade in with many many examples of truly great young musicians.
Then my head hurt .... as I smacked it on the floor when I fell off my chair asleep.
(that was just before I shuddered with disbelief at the last track)
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
I think the ones saying that probably had an older generation saying the same thing when they were young.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by StephenR
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Have to agree with StephenR - I remember when certain "trad experts" were saying that Planxty and the Bothy Band were destroying the music! It's quite the opposite now in that the youngsters are reaching great heights with their music and anyone here in Tullamore for the last few days would only be too aware of this. For people who can't make it to the Fleadh there are many examples of young people playing on Comhaltaslive. Rather than picking an example of a young virtuouso (and there are many) I'll point you to a Clare under-18 Céilí Band at http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_256_5_tigh_na_coille_ceili_band_reels/. I think this puts in a better perspective as you have 10 young musicians playing good music and when you consider that in this competition alone there were another 14 other bands with the same number of musicians so it gives an idea of the scale of things. My contention is that there's never been more young people playing traditional music and also to a very high standard.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
thanks Bannerman, lovely playing
.Ireckon they were playing somewhere about 102[204 205],but they were playing with a good lift and lilt
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Rufus Jameson
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
For as long as our spieces has been around the previous generation has thought that the next generatin were a bunch of feckless talentless ouanquers* who were putting art, morals, knowledge everything and anything into terminal quality decline.
* I assume this special spelling will pass the Jeremy feck filter!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by yhaalhouse
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
well i wouldn't go as far to say the BEST example to prove it wrong. good enough, but the last does not make me want to go back!lol.
there are lots of better examples on comhaltas live, as much as i may dislike comhaltas but however, but really the next generation is in its twenties now: sean mckeon, conor mcevoy, ronan oflaherty, enda scahill, liam o'connor,etc.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Dickens, I just clocked that video at 109. There's no need to guess. Just time 32 bars on a stopwatch, starting and stopping on the same beat (eg. the first beat of the B part the 1st and 2nd time through the tune, to give them a chance to settle into their tempo), and divide the duration into 60*64=3840.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
The last track on the album is by far the best example of Irish music
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Great ceili band clip. Excellent spirit I thought. Not a pick-up to be seen on any of the fiddles either.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
"The last track on the album is by far the best example of Irish music"
Irish dance music
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Sorry granama I forgot about that, I know full well it's perfect for the odd ceilidh!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
And, Patkiwi, this was the piece they performed for a "re-call" so it wouldn't have been as practiced as their initial tunes played earlier in the competition. Tradmoosic, I didn't intend to suggest that this is the "best" band although personally having seen their later performance at the 2007 All-Ireland in Tullamore, where they won the competition, I wouldn't have disagreed with the judges! In any case this is a bit of a digression as what we're discussing is whether or not "the younger generation can play this music right" and I think we're all in agreement on this.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
- And where exactly is the rule book?
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by martin t
I don't think that good or bad ethnic/folk/trad music exists, it's all relevant. What does exist are players who are more popular than others and I don't see why popularity should interest us.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by martin t
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
"it's all relevant."
I know it's not really what we're discussing here, but what *is* the relevance of the last track on the album that Slainte linked to? I'm not making any absolute judgment on it, but what's it doing tagged onto the end of a CD of traditional music? If they were seriously aiming at the 'dance music' market, surely they would have released it separately. Were they just 'avin' a laff?
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
i think something was lost in translation bannerman, i was referring to the first link that slainte put up not the ceili band which i think are great.lol. sorry i shud have made that a bit clearer.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
No worries tradmoosic - it's one of the pitfalls with communicating in Cyberspace which I've often fallen into, and the fact we're talking about two totally different recordings doesn't help. Also Martin T, what we're discussing here shouldn't need rule books - I'm not sure who said it (it might have been Breandan Breathnach) but his theory was "you know it when you hear it". Please ignore this comment if we're at cross purposes here and you're referring to something else!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
no, no, no...I said they couldn't cut my grass right,
...but they do just fine playing the music!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
The music? Cripes, I'm just trying to get them to pick up after themselves! Where is the laundry hamper? The floor? WRONG! Try again!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
The last track shows the youngsters still have a better sense of humor than the old geezers who scratch their heads pondering the reasons behind it.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
The techno? Hilarious! The dirty underwear on the floor? Eh, not so much.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Irish music all sounds the same to me. That's why I only listen to those few who don't.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by The Merry Highlander
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Listen to this at
http://www.myspace.com/fullsetmusic
They are really very good, indeed. Michael Harrison is superb - when he's in a position to ask the question in this thread he'll be the tradition.
Steve
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by stevekeene
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
I think this ties in with the thread on the middle class thing? It's all polite intelligence -
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by pavlf
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
There is no right or wrong. It's all about interpretation.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by Odin
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Guess what? The younger generation _own_ this music. They are
in the process of signing the papers now ...
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by Hup
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Thanks, Jusa Nutter Eejit. That's exactly what I mean.
There's one thing I want to clarify. The Hernon brothers keep the aural tradition alive as did their grandparents. They learnt this music from their musical parents and grandparents. They aren't just talented kids picking up ear-catching tunes from the recent recordings of Lunasa and Dervish.
Here's another similar example: http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_264_3_the_hurley_family/
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by slainte
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
"I think this ties in with the thread on the middle class thing?"
Yes, I read through the thread before posting this one, and thought we should look into individual cases. In the case of the Hernon brothers, they have played in competitions, sell their music, and listen to (and play?) other types of music. But do all these things really matter? Isn't it most important to learn and play this music in the old-fashioned styles through the years of listening?
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by slainte
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Forgot to thank everyone for all the interesting inputs. Please keep them coming.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by slainte
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
But I guess some people arent lucky enough to learn that way - so Dervish etc serves their purpose for all those people not brought up and exposed to tunes around the world...
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Obviously, my family don't play this music, and I am now far away from the places where this music is often played and heard. But I personally prefer learning tunes from actual people to picking up obscure settings of tunes from the commercial recordings. Playing in a recording studio or on the stage before a large audience is usually very different from playing with friends in a pub or kitchen, you know. But it's true that some recordings of famous bands, including the first few albums of Dervish, have relaxed session-like feel, and there's something we can learn from them.
bb, I know you are much luckier than me. All the good music friends of mine in Japan live far from where I live. I don't have a chance to have "trouble in the kitchen."
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by slainte
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
I heard the fiddling daughter of Mary McNamara playing 'Jennie's
Welcome to Charlie' on Clare FM a few weeks ago. She has that
sparse, relaxed E Clare swinging style but maybe later on she'll
play like Smythe or O'Dowd?
Michael Coleman changed trad forever in the 1920s when people
started using recorded media to learn from his playing.
You could choose to play like Coleman in New York instead of the
lady down the street.
The Coleman of our age is the Internet I suppose, but going in the
opposite direction. For example you can watch
videos of "FIDDLE4" playing tunes in Belfast, seeing how he bows.
You can even write to him online and ask him about it.
You can take lessons with James Kelly through video
conferencing (so I've heard). It's bringing that village thing back a little bit.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by Hup
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
That's a lovely clip of the Hurleys. And it's interesting - for people who think that being in Ireland is an advantage - that their Dad and Uncle, Michael and Des, were born and bred in Leeds, England. I spent a lot of formative years playing with them.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Kevin Hurley is still based in Leeds too, not to mention Des.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by slainte
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
sure no-one realy thinks its an advantage anymore to be living in ireland and playing irish music. sure there are a whole rake of fantastic musicians that grew up in england,:ie. john carty, john blake, kevin crawford, catherine mcevoy, angelina carberry,etc. thats just a handful, and doesnt include musicians from other countries also.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Absolutley its an advantage growing up in Ireland or England. Believe me - if you want to be good a trad you wouldnt consider it an advantage growing up in Australia....maybe one day - but not now. My friends and I all started in our teens and early 20s - you can never expect to be as good as someone whos been playing since they were 5. The scene is so small here, you wouldnt even believe it...the music scenes in Ireland and England & America are massive compared so yes - I think its an advantage to grow up in a place with a big scene......
Slainte - I agree - learning from people is great...however, if we were to do that here, we'd be playing the same 40 tunes forever.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Yes, I can agree that living in Australia is a disadvantage. But all the good players from Oz I've met (some you knw bb) have all done somthing about it.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
And I'm certain that starting late is no insurmountable hurdle. Absolutely you can be as good or better than those who started as kids. That kind of negative capping of your expectations is really annoying
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
tradmoosic .. Enda Scahill is now well above his twenties and mid thirties. I was one time a fan of his.
I think we should remember that anyone we think thats great nowadays that is not considered to be of young generation was once "a younger generation musician" which means they were probably great back then but if some one was giving out about there music it may have been that it was not of their taste.
Personally I absolutely love to hear any young musician playing even if its not of top standard. Everybody has something we can learn from them no matter how good or bad!
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by eurbanjo
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Okay IIig - what I meant was that you have a much better *chance* at being good if you start young, Think about it...no job, no rent to pay, no food to buy, no family to look after. Thats just what I mean...But youre right - I guess it is possible.
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Living in a town with a big scene doesn't always mean you have access to the hotshot players. Some just don't have the patience to play with beginners. I was just thinking that I might be as good now as some of those really good players were when they were about 14. So in 4 years, if I'm as good as they were when they were 18, that's pretty dang good.
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by airport
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Ok, but if youre in a town with lots of player - the you get exposed to the music. I am not kidding when I say that 99% of Australian's think that Irish music is the Corrs. Even just hearing the music from a young age and being exposed is surely a good thing? I was so I count myself lucky.
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
99% of the Irish think that Irish music is the Corrs.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Some say the younger generation can't play this music right.
Yeah, that's more or less true.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by slainte