My friend wants to buy a concertina. There's one in the local music shop, but I don't trust it (meaning I would never trust a fiddle in that shop, so I don't see why I should trust a concertina).
So... Where to start? How much money? Any particular good sites in europe? Can he trust ebay?
Any ideas on make, serial number, etc, on this concertina ?
We could then give you a clue.
Ebay has a lot of the Krap German concertinas.
You need, for a start, one of the few reputable makes, or a modern builder ( which will cost more ) plus even an old good make will probably need a £300+ recon to get it in shape if it hasen't had one already.
Others can help you more.
Go on concertina.net plenty of experts there. You will get all the advice you need plus plenty of people selling instruments all the time too. This site is a little general although some members are very helpful!
They're in America, but i got a nice Rochelle Anglo 30 button C/G concertina from the Button Box in Boston, Ma
I paid around $350 american for it
play it alot and never had anything break, or any buttons stick, or anything go wrong at all
in fact it plays better now that its broken in a little
if you want to get started, i can't think of a better box to cut your teeth on and you cannot beat the price for the kind of quality and durability of these Rochelles
There was a discussion on Concertina.net not so long ago about the difficulty that can be encountered by people who want to learn the concertina - but can't afford the money that's often asked for a halfway decent model. A good Anglo can cost several hundred pounds - running into 4 figures. A cheap Chinese model - 20-key C/G for example - can be bought for around £80 but they are very variable in quality and quite clumsy for a beginner. I have one, and it can't stand up to a 20-year old, battered 20-key Jones Anglo. So it's going on eBay very soon...
The Rochelle mentioned in a previous post sounds like a good bargain. The main problem with all this is that, unlike other instruments, there isn't often a lot available between very cheap, poor instruments and good, but expensive instruments.
A bit of a hijack here, but could someone possibly outline the pros and cons of Anglo v English for me?
I'm planning to buy a concertina, and don't know what I should be looking for - instinct tells me that having the same note both directions should be better, but most people here seem to play Anglo.
I think I would use it mainly for song accompaniment rather than 'toons'.
Ah....
Having read those threads I might withdraw the thanks. ;) The only thing that is that there is no clear answer.
But the thing that probably swings it for me is the comments about not being able to vamp chords on the English.
Next question is on tunings - most of the stuff I do is in D or G, most cheap anglos seem to be C/G - is it easy enough to play in D across the rows, or would I be better looking for a G/D instrument?
For what its worth Skreech, I borrowed a good english box to see how I got on with it and didn't. Never got a connected sounding tune so I gave it back. A bit later my wife gave me an old anglo for Christmas. I picked it up and tunes just fell out of it and I fell in love with it. My mate who plays the english thinks it's impossible to play. Takes all sorts.
and to answer part of your question, csparpd, she bought it on e-bay. got it very cheap and it was just as described. (20 key C/G, victorian factory made concertina from George Jones) I've not had to do anything to it yet. I think we were lucky.
Can't play properly in D though because there is no C#. Have to cheat and leave it out. Now I'm looking for something with a few more notes.
When I started playing the (anglo) concertina, I bought a new Hohner 20 button C/G on eBay. After a while I figured I wanted to go for it, so i bought a 30 button Stagi. Two crappy concertinas by all accounts, but enough for me to decide.
I am now playing a Morse Ceili, and will in a few years order a Suttner.
Good luck!
PS!
tone dumb harry: you could tune up you your top right hand c (push) to c#.
I'd just like to say that I can vamp chords on my english - any adjacent triangle of three notes on either side is a chord, you just have to remember when to put in the required sharps or flats, the adjacent black button ( on a cheap student model ) to the white note. Or, if you have a posh one, the outer row next to one of the middle rows.
Remember, Wheatstone was both an instrument-maker and a scientist, so he developed an instrument ( the english ) that made sense to him on both levels. So you play alternative notes on each side for quick fingering as you play a scale, and the closest notes on either side in the scale are in the opposite row, giving you these nice little triangles of chords, as I said. And the early models even had the notes stamped on the buttons.
I believe the reason that the anglo in C/G became ubiquitous in ITM was it's relative cheapness, not it's ease of fitting well with the D/G/A keys of ITM - english concertinas remained the choice of the affluent middle-classes for many years.
I play anglo and english but play different tunes on each - they are totally different instruments.
English is easier to learn (if you are a musician), fine for fast stuff, chords, playing outside two sharps and flats, ornaments and like-for-like, can be half the price of an anglo. I don't know why more people (who are already musicians) don't play ITM on english. If you want to hear a flash player to convince you, look up Simon Thoumire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiSnLR6Ojuk
I wouldn't recomend learners holding the concertina like him though, although I have never worked out why tumbstraps and finger-rest are a good idea. I stopped using the finger-rest so I can use all four fingers..
Nevertheless, there is still that challenge of playing a push-pull, and in truth, I prefer playing anglo.
GO ANGLO
i play an anglo G/D; it was love at first squeeze, not a rational act. i'd have been better off if i'd started on a C/G (i attended noel hill's weeklong camp years back and he made me borrow someone else's C/G -- that's how strongly he feels about it), but i can't see relearning all my fingerings at this point. as to the anglo/english question, i heard somewhere that you get more punch with an anglo, as there is more push/pull going on, and that makes sense to me, but that's hardly scientific. a little like the PC/Mac issue -- whichever one you play must be the best...
Thanks for all the Fantastic replies! You've all been very helpfull.
My friend has decided that he's probably going to go for an anglo concertina in D/G.
Any particular good sites in europe?
Thanks
WF
I have a Morse Ceili loaner Concertina here as we speak.
I have owned 2 Jeffires and a Wheatstone
This is a fine box.
Well made, fast, light and a great action and sound.
This one is in G/D
My other concertinas were in C/G and Ab/Eb...
I prefer the G/D..
The downside is that all the tutorials are geared to C/G
HAve a listen to Jody Kruskal who plays a Jefferies G/D
Look on the Button Box Web site for C/D's though I believe he does not play a great deal of Irish Trad
Buying a Concerina
Buying a Concerina
My friend wants to buy a concertina. There's one in the local music shop, but I don't trust it (meaning I would never trust a fiddle in that shop, so I don't see why I should trust a concertina).
So... Where to start? How much money? Any particular good sites in europe? Can he trust ebay?
Thanks
WF
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by WobblingFiddle
Re: Buying a Concerina
Can anyone trust e-bay?!
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by csparpd
Re: Buying a Concertina
Any ideas on make, serial number, etc, on this concertina ?
We could then give you a clue.
Ebay has a lot of the Krap German concertinas.
You need, for a start, one of the few reputable makes, or a modern builder ( which will cost more ) plus even an old good make will probably need a £300+ recon to get it in shape if it hasen't had one already.
Others can help you more.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Buying a Concerina
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9419
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8925
http://www.concertina.net/
http://www.concertina.co.uk/
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by joesmith
Re: Buying a Concerina
Go on concertina.net plenty of experts there. You will get all the advice you need plus plenty of people selling instruments all the time too. This site is a little general although some members are very helpful!
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by csparpd
Re: Buying a Concerina
They're in America, but i got a nice Rochelle Anglo 30 button C/G concertina from the Button Box in Boston, Ma
I paid around $350 american for it
play it alot and never had anything break, or any buttons stick, or anything go wrong at all
in fact it plays better now that its broken in a little
if you want to get started, i can't think of a better box to cut your teeth on and you cannot beat the price for the kind of quality and durability of these Rochelles
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Buying a Concerina
There was a discussion on Concertina.net not so long ago about the difficulty that can be encountered by people who want to learn the concertina - but can't afford the money that's often asked for a halfway decent model. A good Anglo can cost several hundred pounds - running into 4 figures. A cheap Chinese model - 20-key C/G for example - can be bought for around £80 but they are very variable in quality and quite clumsy for a beginner. I have one, and it can't stand up to a 20-year old, battered 20-key Jones Anglo. So it's going on eBay very soon...
The Rochelle mentioned in a previous post sounds like a good bargain. The main problem with all this is that, unlike other instruments, there isn't often a lot available between very cheap, poor instruments and good, but expensive instruments.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Will Fly
Re: Buying a Concerina
A bit of a hijack here, but could someone possibly outline the pros and cons of Anglo v English for me?
I'm planning to buy a concertina, and don't know what I should be looking for - instinct tells me that having the same note both directions should be better, but most people here seem to play Anglo.
I think I would use it mainly for song accompaniment rather than 'toons'.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by skreech
Re: Buying a Concerina
Skreech - Relevant threads here:
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4748&start=0&p=46331&#entry46331
and a mega-thread that gets a bit heated here:
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8125&start=0&p=78343&#entry78343
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by TomB-R
Re: Buying a Concerina
Many thanks.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by skreech
Re: Buying a Concerina
Ah....
Having read those threads I might withdraw the thanks. ;) The only thing that is that there is no clear answer.
But the thing that probably swings it for me is the comments about not being able to vamp chords on the English.
Next question is on tunings - most of the stuff I do is in D or G, most cheap anglos seem to be C/G - is it easy enough to play in D across the rows, or would I be better looking for a G/D instrument?
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by skreech
Re: Buying a Concerina
For what its worth Skreech, I borrowed a good english box to see how I got on with it and didn't. Never got a connected sounding tune so I gave it back. A bit later my wife gave me an old anglo for Christmas. I picked it up and tunes just fell out of it and I fell in love with it. My mate who plays the english thinks it's impossible to play. Takes all sorts.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by greg n'sheils
Re: Buying a Concerina
and to answer part of your question, csparpd, she bought it on e-bay. got it very cheap and it was just as described. (20 key C/G, victorian factory made concertina from George Jones) I've not had to do anything to it yet. I think we were lucky.
Can't play properly in D though because there is no C#. Have to cheat and leave it out. Now I'm looking for something with a few more notes.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by greg n'sheils
Re: Buying a Concerina
When I started playing the (anglo) concertina, I bought a new Hohner 20 button C/G on eBay. After a while I figured I wanted to go for it, so i bought a 30 button Stagi. Two crappy concertinas by all accounts, but enough for me to decide.
I am now playing a Morse Ceili, and will in a few years order a Suttner.
Good luck!
PS!
tone dumb harry: you could tune up you your top right hand c (push) to c#.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by snorre
Re: Buying a Concerina
Hmm. Thanks. Sounds like I need someone who knows what they are doing.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by greg n'sheils
Re: Buying a Concerina
I'd just like to say that I can vamp chords on my english - any adjacent triangle of three notes on either side is a chord, you just have to remember when to put in the required sharps or flats, the adjacent black button ( on a cheap student model ) to the white note. Or, if you have a posh one, the outer row next to one of the middle rows.
Remember, Wheatstone was both an instrument-maker and a scientist, so he developed an instrument ( the english ) that made sense to him on both levels. So you play alternative notes on each side for quick fingering as you play a scale, and the closest notes on either side in the scale are in the opposite row, giving you these nice little triangles of chords, as I said. And the early models even had the notes stamped on the buttons.
I believe the reason that the anglo in C/G became ubiquitous in ITM was it's relative cheapness, not it's ease of fitting well with the D/G/A keys of ITM - english concertinas remained the choice of the affluent middle-classes for many years.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Buying a Concerina
skreech, yes it is very easy to play in D on a C/G anglo, provided it is the 30 button Anglo.
The 30 button ones have a row of accidentals that allow you to play in other keys
there are 20 button C/G Anglos out there, too, and that is the difference...no row of accidentals
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Buying a Concerina
I play anglo and english but play different tunes on each - they are totally different instruments.
English is easier to learn (if you are a musician), fine for fast stuff, chords, playing outside two sharps and flats, ornaments and like-for-like, can be half the price of an anglo. I don't know why more people (who are already musicians) don't play ITM on english. If you want to hear a flash player to convince you, look up Simon Thoumire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiSnLR6Ojuk
I wouldn't recomend learners holding the concertina like him though, although I have never worked out why tumbstraps and finger-rest are a good idea. I stopped using the finger-rest so I can use all four fingers..
Nevertheless, there is still that challenge of playing a push-pull, and in truth, I prefer playing anglo.
GO ANGLO
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by geoffwright
Re: Buying a Concerina
i play an anglo G/D; it was love at first squeeze, not a rational act. i'd have been better off if i'd started on a C/G (i attended noel hill's weeklong camp years back and he made me borrow someone else's C/G -- that's how strongly he feels about it), but i can't see relearning all my fingerings at this point. as to the anglo/english question, i heard somewhere that you get more punch with an anglo, as there is more push/pull going on, and that makes sense to me, but that's hardly scientific. a little like the PC/Mac issue -- whichever one you play must be the best...
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by 'tinamatt
Another hijack
Anyone in the Montreal area available to give our friend lessons on the concertina?
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by vonnieestes
Re: Buying a Concerina
Thanks for all the Fantastic replies! You've all been very helpfull.
My friend has decided that he's probably going to go for an anglo concertina in D/G.
Any particular good sites in europe?
Thanks
WF
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by WobblingFiddle
Re: Buying a Concerina
http://www.bandoneon-maker.com/harrygeuns1.htm
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by joesmith
Re: Buying a Concerina
Thanks joesmith, but is there anything more close to a beginners price?
Thanks
WF
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by WobblingFiddle
Re: Buying a Concerina
AFAIK, none of the "beginners" Anglos come in a D/G version. The Morse Ceili at nearly £1900 (UK pounds) is the cheapest I know of in that key.
# Posted on May 30th 2009 by DavyR
Re: Buying a Concerina
I have a Morse Ceili loaner Concertina here as we speak.
I have owned 2 Jeffires and a Wheatstone
This is a fine box.
Well made, fast, light and a great action and sound.
This one is in G/D
My other concertinas were in C/G and Ab/Eb...
I prefer the G/D..
The downside is that all the tutorials are geared to C/G
HAve a listen to Jody Kruskal who plays a Jefferies G/D
Look on the Button Box Web site for C/D's though I believe he does not play a great deal of Irish Trad
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by bohemian
Re: Buying a Concerina
My emperical brain says English system... logical and best for learning using standard notation all types of music possible
My intuition and experience with melodeons leads me to the Anglo system
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by bohemian